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First in breaking news and analysis: Msnbc.com reporters and NBC correspondents bring you compelling stories from across the nation.
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BIRMINGHAM, Ala. - An Alabama judge agreed Thursday to declare Natalee Holloway legally dead, more than six years after the teenager vanished on the Caribbean island of Aruba.
Judge Alan King announced his decision at a hearing Thursday requested by the teen's father, Dave Holloway, who was in court with Beth Holloway, his ex-wife and Natalee's mother. He told the judge in September he believed his daughter had died and he wanted to stop paying her medical insurance and use her college fund for her brother.
Thursday's hearing had been scheduled before a suspect questioned in Holloway's disappearance, Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, pleaded guilty Wednesday in Peru to the 2010 murder of a woman there.
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Natalee Holloway disappeared on a high school graduation trip May 30, 2005. She was last seen leaving a bar with van der Sloot. Her body was never found.
One of Dave Holloway's attorneys, J. Mark White, said at Thursday's hearing, "No evidence has been found that Natalee Holloway is alive," reported The Birmingham News.
Dave Holloway said he had expected to hear the judge would declare his daughter dead because he had no doubt about that. "We've been dealing with her death for the last six and a half years," he said.
Beth Holloway, Natalee's mom, didn't speak at the hearing, but her lawyer said she supported the request to declare her daughter legally dead, according to The Birmingham News.
On Wednesday, Van der Sloot pleaded guilty to the 2010 murder of Stephany Flores, a 21-year-old woman who died five years to the day after the disappearance of Holloway.
Van der Sloot was arrested twice in the Holloway case but he was never charged due to a lack of evidence. Holloway's family has criticized Dutch authorities for not making more progress in the case.
Van der Sloot has told police he strangled Flores, a skilled poker player and the daughter of a wealthy businessman, after he found her looking at his laptop computer in his hotel room.
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Declaring death doesn't always take 7 years. That's mearly the basic guideline of the law. Their are sublaws within the basic that offer other avenues to declare death prior.
I think dr.girlfriend explained it very well. There have been cases where a 'missing' person was formally declared dead in court after a relatively short (1 to 2 year) period. This was to allow insurance policies to be claimed.
Originally, Beth Hollaway, Natalie's mother, did not want to declare her daughter deceased...holding on to her understandable hope. In the Hollaway case, Aruban justice proved itself to be a shame. Hopefully, Peru will sentence Vandersloot to consecutive life sentences.
Really, nice reporting job. I have read this several times on MSNBC articles about this case. Can more details about these emails be provided. Can they be used as evidence against Van der Sloot? No one seems know what these emails actually contained. Does anyone know?
Its more obvious Vanderwhore killed her especially now after what he's done in the Dominican..He really needs to be water boarded if anyone at any time.
There is evidence and testimony in this case, so 7 years is a bit too long to wait. Natalee is definitely dead. Poor girl, she paid a high price for a single bad decision. She didn't deserve this.
Perhaps a technically correct word, but typically used to describe boisterous bachelor uncles and unruly children, not mulitple murderers.
I have always thought that Flores had to have seen something really bad in that room. I didn't know til now that he had emails concerning Natalee. You don't kill someone just because they ask you about something the entire world knows. This girl saw evidence that would have ruined him.
I agree......where are these emails about her death???? He got so irate over her snooping on his laptop that he had to kill her. I know he is crazy but her reading incriminating emails would be most likely what set him off so come on tell us about the emails!!!!
Girls... do not go with a guy just because you like him. KNOW HIM, first, before spending time with him. Whom? Anyone. No exceptions. Also, let other people know you are leaving with a stranger. Do not just allow yourself to become another Jane Doe.
KNOW HIM, first, before spending time with him. Whom? Anyone. No exceptions. Also, let other people know you are leaving with a stranger. Do not just allow yourself to become another Jane Doe.
How do you get to know someone without spending time with him? I think it's a shame that these sensationalist media stories are turning our society into scared, suspicious, and paranoid shut-ins. There are bad people out there, but overwhelmingly people are good. Try to keep things in perspective.
I can only imagine how her mother feels. Days turn into weeks, months, then years with hopes fading slowly away. A funeral is of a son or daughter is bad enough, but without a body there will never be full closure.
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Death in absentia (or presumption of death) is a legal declaration that a person is deceased in the absence of remains (e.g., a corpse or skeleton) attributable to that person. Such a declaration is typically made when a person has been missing for an extended period of time without any evidence that the person is still alive, or when the circumstances surrounding a person's disappearance overwhelmingly support the belief that the person has died (e.g., an airplane crash). A declaration that a person is dead resembles other forms of "preventive adjudication," such as the declaratory judgment.[1]
Most countries have a set period of time (seven years in many common law jurisdictions) after which an individual is presumed to be dead if there is no evidence to the contrary. However, if the missing individual is the owner of a significant estate, the court may delay ordering a death certificate to be issued if there has been no real effort to locate the missing person. If the death is thought to have taken place in international waters or in a location without a centralized and reliable police force and/or vital statistics registration system, other laws may be in effect.
YEAH! if only people would stop posting about this subject... in fact, i think everybody should post everyday in protest about people talking about this subject until people stop posting about it! (sarcasm off)
i always wonder why the news and people criticize and make public declarations about people trying to get in the news... thereby fulfilling their wishes and CAUSING the perpetuation of the story..
Optomyst...I would want to move on with my life and keep myself and my remaining family out of the news and public eye as much as possible. Trust me, this is what the father wants and has wanted for a long time. The media continues to drive this story. peteriod01----Addressing your response, you are correct in your observation.
If you all are so tired of hearing/reading about the tragic case of Miss. Holloway... Simply chenge the channel or read a different news post. By commenting on how "tired" you are of the subject you are only adding more to the story........
I am so sick of media only reporting about missing white women! There are plenty of other cases similar to this that's going on and have been going on for yrs and the only reason it's not getting attention is because the color of their skin!!! I am outraged, appauled, & disgusted! Condolescence to the family but this bias @!$%# has got to stop!! I think I will start a petition and target all media (like this one) that doesn't show the same attention to women of color as well cause EVERY FAMILY DESERVES THE SAME AMOUNT OF ATTENTION.
Oh dear God! Go do yourself a favor and stop your racial moaning and groaning. You'll have a better life if you get over that color crap. It's the same color on the inside, unless you're rotten.
I am so sick of media only reporting about missing white women! There are plenty of other cases similar to this that's going on and have been going on for yrs and the only reason it's not getting attention is because the color of their skin!!!
Vandersloot is not an American national. He is a Dutch national and he and his family were living in Aruba. His father was a prominent judge there.
Somehow I doubt this story will ever "run its course" with the parents of Natalie Holloway. As a parent who has lost a child who was the same age as Natalie, your comment seems so selfish... you don't have to read the article! Anyone with daughters should constantly remind them of this story... my daughter is in college and wanting to go to Mexico with friends over spring break. My first thought was of this story. And I'm sure now that this Vandersloot POS has admitted to the murder of this other girl, Natalie's mom and dad are re-living all of this over and over again and want justice for their own daughter as well.
I don't understand people who read these stories and take the time to post on a blog stating "who cares?" If you don't care, just move on! Nobody is forcing you to read anything... there is plenty of other news out there that can keep you busy!
Now that Vandersloot has admitted to the other murder and sentenced, maybe he will finally decide to confess. I believe that's what they are counting on, and why the judgment about Natalie was given the day after Van. sentencing. He may not, but as in "Shawshank Redemption" TIME and PRESSURE...so we'll see...
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What I want to know is how 'they' know that his laptop contained info about Natalie....I would think if authorities knew that they would take his laptop and check themselves....
Yes, I keep seeing stories about this computer and its emails, yet never any report about what those emails said nor if investigators were looking into this.
the authorities only know about the emails because Vander Sloot told them about it...no one said the computer was recovered from him with the emails...he could have easily erased them or destroyed the computer. who knows?
patHuntingtonNY - Something you should know about the internet, you can't erase anything. Unless he has access to the servers any skilled computer hacker can find those emails. He just needs to know where to look.
Don't forget that Van der Sloot tried to extort Natalee's mother in exchange for info on her death. The emails could have been related to that. They also could have just referenced his involvement. He probably didn't want Ms. Flores to know what a dirtbag he is. Nobody said the emails were evidence of the crime he perpetrated on Natalee, they probably were just not flattering.....
According to other reports, Joran lied, there was nothing on the computer about Natalee. He said this so that he would face a lesser charge based on Peruvian law. News reporters are often not updating thier facts when reporting on a new story.
I can't think of any reason this boy should be alive. Hopefully, some inmate will kill him in prison or he will get accidentally shot trying escape.
Sadly, that probably won't happen. From the reports, he's been enjoying himself quite well. Getting along with inmates and playing card games with them.
Hes being held in protective custody, with other PC inmates. If he gets put into general population, hes likely done. The girls family that he killed, are rich and powerful. And well known and liked. If they havent paid someone to do it, someone will likely do it anyway just because they like the family and feel sorry for them. My opinion, they kept him alive for the trial. So they could get the publicity, and make an example of him. Once they have what they want, hes no use to anyone and becomes a cost.
You are exactly right I hope some how this guy will be killed in prison or shot escaping. Have you noticed the look on his face when the camera shows him? He acts like he own the world. His father the judge is no longer here to keep him out of trouble.
Vander Sloop has a very funny looking head like it has a big round melon inside instead of a brain. It's the first thing I ever notice about him - melon head. Can't imagine any girl wanting to be around him - yuck!
If he does get released he has to stand trial in the US for extorting money from Beth Holloway. He has already been charged with the crime so the statue of limitations will not apply. I dont see this monster ever being free again. Good chance he never makes it out of prison.
Natalie was too pretty for him. If she had not been intoxicated she probably would not have left with him to begin with. He should confess to the death of Natalie, so her mother can have a proper memorial for her. I also agree that his computer should be seized.
Um, because of a divorce decree probably. There's also the refusal mentally to accept that a missing person is deceased. I know Natalee's mom has put up resistance to allowing Natalee to be declared dead in the past.
If it were me ... there would always be the "what if..?" "What if the person really is alive and they need this medical insurance?" "What if the person has amnesia and they regain their memory and return home now with a pre-existing condition?" "What if ...?"
Well, there could be two reasons behind it. (Pure guesses here) The first could be that it's hard to let go and you just can't stop doing something. The second is Health Care Reform is going to kick in soon and everyone is required to have health insurance.
I was going to say because of the divorce decree, too. When my parents divorced my father was required to keep me on his insurance until I graduated from college or reached 25.
Since Natalie's parents are divorced, it is likely that the father is required to carry insurance on her by divorce decree (and the law now allows it until the age of 27 and she would only be 24). Since she has been considered a missing person and not declared dead, he would be in violation of such a court order if he cancelled the insurance.
Maybe because he was still hoping his (Loved One) would somehow be alive. Since they never found her body. "Hoping" is the big word here. Put yourself in his place! Maybe you would feel the same if some killed a person you loved, and you don't have any answers, or a body to bury, or justice for your loved one!!!
When my car was stolen I was told by the insurance company to continue paying my premiums until the car was declared a total lost. I know having your car stolen is tiny compared to this situation, but it could possibly be why he has still been paying her medical insurance. Just a thought.
The family probably kept paying the premiums in the hope Natalee would be found alive. If the insurance policy was canceled and she then was found alive, a new policy would cost more because she would be in an older age bracket. I agree with another poster, rlamoree, that Natalee could be the victim of human trafficking. I suspect VanderSloot was hoping the family would accept the idea of Natalee's death immediately and not look into his business enough to discover he has been involved in sex trafficking. I heard that a reporter visited VanderSloot's coffee shop in Thailand and concluded it was a front for such trafficking. I also would urge people to keep up with the case of Amy Bradley, who went missing before Natalee vanished. Amy went missing from a cruise ship after she had been in Carlos and Charlie's bar in Aruba, and she has been seen by various tourists on Caribbean islands. She begged some tourists to help her escape, but they did not realize what was happening. When the tourists returned to the U.S., they saw the Bradley parents on TV and recognized the photos as the girl they had met. Yet others did realize what the situation was, but they were intimidated by bouncers in a club where Amy was being trafficked.
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What I have never understood is how her mother kept blaming Aruba and encouraging Americans to boycott their country. When you have a teenage girl who's been drinking and leaves the bar with a guy she doesn't know she's asking for trouble no matter country she's in. The mother (isn't she now married to Jon Benet Ramsey's dad?) never once expressed any distress or remorse over her parenting. If my daughter behaved the way Natalee did I would blame myself that I hadn't taught her better and feel guilty until the day I died. I would not attack another nation and blame them!
She criticized the slowness of their response to her daughters disappearance, and their search efforts. And rightfully so. They dragged their feet the whole time, and let Vandersloot walk because daddy is a top judge there. Another woman has disappeared there, and its the same deal. Clueless. I would NEVER go there.
The mother seemed to be a real ass....She kept insisting that her daughter didn't need any supervision and was mature enough to make her own decisions....And of course when everything happened, she blamed EVERYONE else....Another arrogant bitch that think she knows it all....Unfortunately, her daughter paid with her life.
Misty, I understand what you are saying, but partying whether parents or you like it or not is a part of growing up for most of us. Just because she was drinking doesn't make her a bad person. I think you're too young to understand that but please don't judge her, most of us do party at one time or another in our lives, doesn't mean we don't grow up to be responsible adults and what you have to remember is, even a prostitute who willingly picks up strangers does not deserve to be murdered. No, she only dated him, he is married to someone else. Don't judge, thats the quickest way to eat your own words.
I can only hope such a tragedy never happens to your daughter - what a mother you would be - blaming your own daughter for her own death. I don't know where you get the idea that she blamed Aruba for the circumstances surrounding her disappearance. I think it was more about the lack of ability to charge VDSloot. If you recall, there is an abundance of suspicion with regard to his father who was a prominent judge. His mother was a piece of work too! Even she finally sees that he likely did it (according to an interview following his arrest for Miss Flores). The cause of death was likely murder, not her behavior. How many young women have to listen to the tripe you divvy out, you and your malaligned righteous indignation - essentially backward mentality which does nothing to add to a discussion about the reality that this moron took advantage of her vulnerability. Your commentary supports Joran's assertions that the women in her presence "were all whores". Alcohol or a desire to party was only a factor because the ending was so tragic. Otherwise, it would have been seen for what it was: young folly. Little Red Riding Hood walked through the forest to visit her grandmother, but by your scenario, she had no right to walk through the forest at all and got what she deserved. You are truly a sad excuse for a human being.
Misty, you don't know what you would do. So don't talk out your @ss. They have been through torture with the loss of their child, they have seen a viable suspect with a powerful father let go twice, they have seen the authorities not act quickly. They have lost their daughter with no real idea what happened, although they do know the person believed to have killed her has killed a woman again.
The country does not seem to take tourist abductions seriously. They have every right to be avoided like the plague by people who want a safe place to visit or a place that will take a crime seriously. The Holloways had the responsibility--to their daughter, to the traveling public--to let the world know that Aruba was slow to address what happened. If the country did not like how that affected their reputation as a vacation spot, then they should have tried to solve the crime. And now another woman has gone missing and the prime suspect in Natalee's disappearance did turn out to be a murderer. Aruba deserves whatever bad reputation they have gotten.
I am certainly not saying she deserved to be murdered - no one does!! But, yes, we do know how she "behaved" - her friends gave a very clear account of her actions up until she left the bar with van der Sloot. What I am saying is that my mother taught me common sense. If you drink, don't drive. If you don't know someone, don't get in the car with them. I agree that Aruba was on the slow side and van der Sloot probably did walk because of his connections (wrong, wrong, wrong!) but like Rom1 said her mother blamed everyone for everything except herself and Natalee. No, you can't be with your kids 24/7 but parents can teach their kids responsibility. And, acting responsibly doesn't mean you can't still have a good time! I just thought her disappearance was a good time for parents to learn a valuable lesson about keeping their kids safe and that didn't happen. If it had at least ONE decent thing would have come out of all this.
Rom1: Goodness! Aren't YOU a 'real ass'! I take it you are THE PERFECT MOTHER AND NEVER MADE ANY MISTAKES!!!! I wouldn't set foot on Aruba if someone GAVE me the money. They didn't do ANYTHING to solve the case. They covered for the little creep all the way! Thanks to him 'getting away with murder' he promptly proceeded to KILL ANOTHER WOMAN! THIS time however I hope her parents have him killed. There is no law there either but I would suspect VENGANCE WILL BE THEIRS before it is over. You however are a MORON!
As for reality.... it is zero hard to get a girl to go off with you and have sex. It is the way of the world today. That opens up things to monsters like this. I would not have said this about him until he admitted to it. Innocent until proven guilty...or you say you are.
*facepalm* cause teenage girls are notorious for telling the truth all the time right? One persons actions for one night does not constitute a baseline to know how they act all the time. Your comments make my brain hurt Misty.
I can understand how you might feel as if the mother should have done better as a parent , but the reality is, Regardless of what a parent teaches there child, there child will do what they want. We don't know all the facts on this case. Only what the media has given out to us. This is a mother who lost her child. She did what she could to get justice but unfortunately there wasn't much she could do. SO instead a mother who is fighting for justice and would do anything for her daughter is being forced to watch the authorities drag there feet. Don't judge her mother because she handle things the way you thing she should have. You haven't been in her position to know what she knows or to go through what she went through. What if you were the girl who was murdered? What if that was your Mom everyone was criticizing! Don't tell me you would never find yourself in that position because all it takes is one time for you to let your guard down. one time for you to put your trust in the wrong person to find yourself in a very similar situation. Before you criticize a parent on there actions you need to understand all part, and everyone role. As much as we would like to know what exactly happened the truth is that we don't. We only have a small amount of information to use to make assumptions off of. Lets not play the blame game but rather have some empathy for what this family is going through.
There's no need to know how she acted all the time. Just that night. And if by lying teenage girls you are referring to her friends - you do know there's video of most of all this? I am in NO way saying she got what she deserved. I am simply trying to say there was and still is an opportunity to use this to teach kids/teens about safety, common sense and responsibility. I don't know how so many of you can disagree with wanting that message spread.
Styles, I guess it's a little harder because I live in B'ham and her mother thought she and her family was perfect both before and after this. When tragedy happens and people choose not to learn ANYTHING it's really sad. I have really tried to present my feelings about teaching kids over and over about safety (and nothing wrong with discussing this case with your teenage daughters and asking how they might have handled it differently and looking at options) without bringing my personal encounters with the Holloways into it because that's not the point I'm trying to make.
Oh wow. While your sitting there passing judgement on people you know absolutely nothing about aside from some news stories try remembering the real point of all this: A beautiful young woman went missing 6 years ago and hasn't been seen since. People put their children to bed, make sure all the windows and doors are locked and go to sleep feeling safe as can be then wake up the next morning to their childs empty beds. Remember Jessica Lunsford? Yea, it doesn't just happen because the girl was out at a bar talking to some guy she didn't know. It happens to people of all backgrounds and situations. Get over the meaningless little points and try to remember the big picture. Also, try passing some of that same judgement on yourself as a parent (if you are one...if not...you have no business making the comment you did) and I'm willing to bet that if you were honest....completely and 100% honest with yourself...you'd realize your making a ton of your own mistakes that, under the right circumstances, could have horrifying results. Nobody's perfect...but they still don't deserve this...no matter what you think. Oh and just as a heads up... I don't care how her mother is acting..don't pretend to know what the woman thinks or feels. You can never know how you'd react to whats happened to her until it happens to you.
Misty, I agree with you her parents have some fault in it. And, Natilee made the choice to drink and go off with, if I remember right, 3 men she had just met. It doesn't mean she deserved what happened, but it is partly her fault. Also, I believe there was a chaperone or chaparones with the kids on this trip. Where were they when she was getting drunk and leaving with these guys? A lot of blame has to go on them for not doing the job they were there to do. What about her "friends?" Did they try to stop her form leaving? There are a lot of people that are at fault for what happened.
And yes, kids need to be taught safety, common sense, and responsibility so this doesn't happen to them. If anything good can come out this, maybe someone else's life will be saved by talking about it.
Laura, thank you for seeing the point I am trying to make. Yes, hopefully somewhere down the line when a girl thinks about getting in a car with a guy she just met she'll remember Natalee Holloway and not do it! Unfortunately bad things do happen when you're not doing anything wrong, but being smart about your actions lowers those odds dramatically!
Sarah, yes, actually I am a mother of two (one is a 13 year old daughter) and guess what? I screw up all the time! But, like my mother taught me I'm teaching both kids not to get in the car with a stranger - no matter what they say. Tell the stranger "Thanks, but I'd rather go on myself." and then call somebody you know to find if your mom or dad is really in the hospital or whatever. I'm teaching them if somebody pulls a gun on you in a parking lot to get in a car tell them to shoot you right there. My mother taught me they're less likely to kill you in front of witnesses, but if you get in the car you'll never be seen again. I'm not saying I don't make mistakes as a parent - what I am saying is that this case is such a good opportunity for parents to show their kids how common sense and responsibility are such an important part of safety.
And you will figure it out, especially with one as a teenager, that you can talk until your blue in the face, but it doesn't mean it will sink in. So a round of applause for you not ever thinking you needed to cross that boundary to figure it out, but realize that you are of precious few. Do you really think that the majority of parents don't tell and teach their kids the same things? We do. But when you think about it, your very adult and motherly advice is still falling on young ears. Think about it, your kids have (as well as my own) have always been surrounded by family and friends. Yea, maybe a bully or two, but how many encounters with seriously dangerous people have they been exposed to? None. They become familiar with it. So when someone pretending to be a great, friendly and amazing person, just like the one Van der Sloot passed himself off to be, they tend to believe it. Thats not a parenting mistake...its a mistake kids make. My kids talk to freakin EVERYBODY, no matter how many times I ream them for it. If you think for a second that your kids dont talk to strangers or will never put themselves in a dumb situation when their older...I feel for you. I give you serious respect for wanting to instill that in your kids...but the fact of the matter is .... sh** happens and as a parent, you can't protect them forever. If your lucky, and yes, it's a game of luck, you won't have to go through what the Holloways did. I know my comments seem mean...but from the opposite end...yours seem heartless. Now I'm done.
Misty, Van Der Sloot slipped Natalee a drug in a cocktail. It's unknown when this occurred. Her leaving the bar with him could have been a result of the drug rather than her own will. Your self-righteous attitude about your perfect kids is sad. Think they could overcome that?
This could have happened to any girl in that bar, but Ven Der Sloot chose Natalee. She had a seizure as a result of whatever street drug he gave her. When he tossed her into the ocean to be eaten by sharks, she may still have been alive, or able to have been saved. No one knows.
Natalee is one person and her mother is another. No one person is responsible for the mistakes of another. Let us remember that the predator stalked this child and she was drugged. No one can make the right decision when they've been mickey finned.
Your statement that you've failed to train your children to avoid speaking to strangers is telling. If one of them is kidnapped (God forbid), there will be people here who will blame you. Are you ready to shoulder that blame? It will happen.
I apologize - people seem to be missing my point. I do NOT think Natalee deserved to die. I do not think prostitutes deserve to die. I think when cases like this come up it presents a good opportunity for parents to sit down with their kids and say, "Hey, look, here's someone your age. Let's talk about how you would respond in that situation." For teens, seeing other teens mistakes cost them their life is a better lesson than we, as parents, could ever teach by just talking. All I was saying is use this an opportunity to talk to your children about safety. I'm not sure how wanting to prevent this from happening again makes me heartless or talking out of my a$$. Good night and thank you to all the people who understood what I was trying to say.
Misty...I am in my 60's....as a teenager growing up in Venice California I would hitch hike to the beach in my bikini. I would accept rides from complete strangers. I partied like people partied in the late 60's early 70's. I mean REALLY partied My parents knew nothing of this and they made every effort parents can make to keep on top of my comings and goings. They did talk to me and warn me of dangers. I CHOSE not to listen. I now know my behavior growing up was wrong and risky. I am very grateful that nothing happened to me. I have a sister and a brother, raised by the same parents that did not take these chances when they were growing up. They CHOSE to listen. It has nothing to do with parenting and everything to do with the type of person Natalie was and her decisions.
I have to agree with Misty, a lot of posters are attacking her for her perceived "judgemental" attitude rather than allowing that there is, in fact, a lesson that young women can benefit from here. A young woman made a poor choice to leave a bar with men she did not know, and lost her life due to this choice. Both she, her friends who allowed this to happen, whomever was supposed to be chaperoning these kids, and her parents share some small portion of the blame in this tragic event. No one can control the actions of a sociopath or murderer. But one can take appropriate measures to protect yourself and your friends by acting with responsibility and care. You don't let your inebriated classmate stagger off with men you've never seen before. You keep track of all the people entrusted to your care. And you do your damnedest to make sure your children know how to protect themselves, including knowing their limits and having a strong moral compass. We all have the right to the pursuit of happiness, but the predators that infest our society don't care about your rights, whether to happiness, safety, or life.
Misty, I get it what you are trying to get across to mothers. You have good common sense and mean well. However, at times the reality and temptation with the young ladies as they get older turn out different, no matter what you teach and tell them of all the danger out there. Your daughter is only 13 and you have not reached the peak jet with your daughter. My Daughter is 40 now and a good mother herself, but keeps telling me Mom how did you do it with all the partying I did. My daughter at 13 was the sweetest girl. So you wait Misty.....You will have many nights without any sleep. I'm sure the Holloway's tried there very best. Nattily did not deserve to die.
Misty, get your facts right before you write. JonBenet Ramsey's father did not marry Natalee Hollway's mother. They dated breifly and that ended several years ago. You sound very young. Stick with playing video games until you've grown up some.
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I always believed that when you've done all of the wrong things in life, you should do at least one thing right. That POS, Van der Sloot, should confess to what really happened to Natalee.
How truly devasting! I feel for both victim's family to have to deal with this. especially Halloway to have no justice served. I hope he rots in jail!
Your magic-cloud-genie doesn't exist; and every day is living proof of that. It's a shame you never obtained a normal education, in real school. Only in Sunday School.
And what is wrong in believing in a "Maker"? If that is what I/anyone else needs to do to get through life, why not? Pup1 did not ask you to believe in what they believe, so why do you feel the need to jump on them?
I believe there is a God and you will not convince me otherwise. Just respect my right to do so, as I respect your right to believe what you do.
Atheist Trolls are as bad as Religious Trolls. You think you know the only True Way to live and you use insulting language to show your superiority to others. It's pure arrogance.
Both sorts are equally obnoxious, equally self-righteous, equally full of themselves and so very dull. Both types should be banned. Neither will ever convince anyone else of anything. Take your argument elsewhere. It's tiresome and repetitive. No one wants to see it here.
Nope, doesn't look like it. Oh well. At least some states recognize it as a viable treatment for depression, but federal law seems to trump it.
Religious freedom is great, but I wish more of the bible thumpers out there would exercise their freedom to not shove it down my throat, and not have my requests to have it not shoved down my throat, treated as attacks on their faith.
But even more so, I wish more of them, especially the more public of them, would practice what they should(from my numerous reads) preach: tolerance, love, understanding of others, and most importantly, peace for everyone who wishes it.
The only thing you should ever truly believe in and fully trust is yourself. Everything will fall into place if you work to make it happen. If not, try to find something else that you can achieve. I.e., instead of being a successful graphic artist, try working in the tech field.
Don't worry, be happy, and live your life respecting others as you would expect to be treated. If more people lived by those words, the world would be a happier place, no belief in a higher power needed.
Personally I still think van der slug and his 2 friends gang raped the girl, kept her prisoner a few days, then sold her to some drug dealers, where she ended up in the sex slave trade. I do believe she could still be alive, sadly her fate may be alot worse then death. Blonde,blue eyed white girls go for large sums to middle eastern and african warlords for thier harems. And its the party islands on the fringes of america that are the biggest gardens for them to pluck from.
I have often wondered that myself--if poor Natalie got sold into the sex slave trade. As for Ms. Walker--Really? You've never partied in your life, had one too many, or had poor judgment? Just for one moment? Especially when you were just 18 years old? Seriously? I didn't know there were such perfect people walking among us. Don't judge Natalie and her parents. These people have paid dearly. The only people to blame here is Joran Dirt Bag and company, and Aruba, NOT Natalie's parents! Geesh! Where is your compassion?
IL Mama, it is entirely possible Ms. Walker has never found herself so trashed that she was in a similar situation of making life-changingly bad choices. It does not take perfection to not go out and get falling down drunk while visiting a foreign country.That is a serious problem with our society today -- the belief that it is a right-of-passage for all youths to party past reason and not have consequences resulting from it. It is entirely possible to party, have a good time, but never be so far gone as to lose one's ability to reason. If we assume that everyone will and should do this without repercussions, we will see more tragedies like this one. Yes, it is a tragedy. No, she did not deserve it. But the sad reality is that it could have been prevented by her own actions -- and that is an important lesson for all young women out there. You can reduce your chances of being a victim if you do not go out and party to the point of being trashed, thus impairing your ability to make good judgements. It should not be considered acceptable for 18 year old girls to do what she did. I'm sorry, but it is just not in their best interest to do that. Again, I'm not in any way saying she was "asking for it" or that she "deserved it." But her actions contributed to it -- and it a cautionary tale that could help save other young women if we allowed ourselves to speak freely about her bad choices that put her in the situation to begin with, instead of canonizing her and treating her like a helpless, random and unavoidable victim. I understand the urge to absolve victims of any responsibility in crimes committed against them, I do -- it sounds harsh and heartless and unfair to point out a victim's faults -- but doing so does nothing to help others learn from their mistakes. That's the real point Ms. Walker was trying to make.
Not according to the testimony Van Der Sloot gave to a journalist when he didn't know he was being recorded. Natalee Holloway died on the beach from a seizure induced by some date-rape drug he gave her in a cocktail. Her body was dumped in the ocean and eaten by sharks. She's dead and gone...she has been for 6 years, the poor child.
I agree! She isn't dead. She's been sold. Haven't you ever seen the movie Taken? have you ever been to a strip club in Europe? These girls don't know who they are. They are victims of human trafficking. My theory is JVS sold Natalee to a human trafficker (most likely South American). They drug them up to the point where they forget who they are. They brainwash them. They change their appearance, etc. JVS always had money to gamble. Any idea where he got it?? He sold a girl. It's so obvious. I don't understand why people won't investigate that theory. Probably because police are paid off in human trafficking cases. A human trafficker doesn't kill a female. Too much money involved. They want the female alive. Has it ever dawned upon anyone that JVS might have been set up for this murder in Peru?? Just a thought... Maybe he knows too much about who he sold Natalee too and they just decided to get rid of him the easy way. Set him up for murder. Someone in a Peruvian jail will probably kill him before his time is up. Holloway might have been sold to someone in Peru, that wants JVS dead now because he knows too much.
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This Ductch is really rotten to the core, no relatives bothered to show up in Peru even just for moral support, and making flimsy excuses for not being there...
What a horrible thing to say Ms. Walker. You don't know if the mother isn't blaming herself. Nor does she need to do it publicly. The girl was 17. You can raise your children and they still will fall to partying. Lets hope you don't get disappointed when your child grows up. You can tell by the story of Natalee that she came from good parenting.
When I look back on some of the things I did when I was 13, 14, I shudder. Of course, my mother didn't know anything about it at the time, so she would have been in the dark if anything bad had happened to me. I was trusting and didn't know I could get hurt going to some of the places I did. I was more scared of the old cops in my neighborhood forcing young girls to go down in the woods with them than I was of boys my own age, and with good reason. Let's face it, young girls are at risk, period.
I wish he would admit to killing Natalee and letting her family find her remains, I can't imagine going through life without one of my kids let alone a proper burial. It's such a sad case...
I've flollowed this case since the day it happened and she never made it to the airport for return trip home. I knew then, that she never would. Its doubly sad that this POS wasnt tried and jailed for this then, otherwise this other girl would be alive. I feel deeply for natalie's parents/family. I cant imagine having this happen to my loved one and being expected to go on with life evday; I admire her (mother) for the relentlessly pursuing of this thru media and in aruba. never giving up her search. now, it is time for her to let go. she has done all she could possibly. and to the poster who mentioned that she should have been taught better, blah,blah, we all are not perfect as u. sure, she should not have gone with people she didnt know and in different country, but she didnt deserve to die for it.
ive followed this case on nancy grace since way back from the gecko. nancy grace is going to have a field day on this. i agree bee i hope he would confess (but then again who knows if it would be the REAL truth. he lies so much). i feel bad for the parents. i mean ya nataliee should of said no to the alcohol etc. it was HER decision to do that stuff. so wasnt beths fault. i feel bad for beth also bc n justice. she has no peace over it while that pschyo rots in jail. idk i could be wrong but i have a feeling that he might get out early than 30 years. maybe make some kind of deal saying if i tell the truth of natalies whereabouts can you get sentence reduced?
You want to know how much a blonde like this brings? Six figures easily from the articles I have read. She is alive and well with her mouth full.
OliviaJones, are we the only ones who saw the documentary in which JVDS was recorded telling his side of what happened to Natalee? No one else here or anywhere else seems to have a clue. It checked out, as far as the Aruba authorities bothered to do so.
It was believable and it made sense. One of the first questions JVDS asked Natalee's mother was whether she had a seizure disorder. Natalee's body was disposed of in a way that meant it will never be found. JVDS was under no pressure so he could tell the truth. He didn't know he was being recorded, so he spoke freely in the car. The boat owner confirmed the part of the story about Natalee's body disposal.
I believed him. No remains will ever be found. Occam's razor would seem to indicate that Natalee is not a white slave in the sex trade, but conspiracy nuts will always believe the weird and the strange.
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Since another young woman has disappeared within six yrs. as Natalie, it does seem that they could have been sold in a sex-slave circuit. I hope they escape and reappear in the future.
I don't think they will reappear, sadly. American woman Amy Bradley was abducted from a cruise ship near the island of Curacao in the late 90s (I think 1997) and has never been seen since. When she was realized to be missing on the ship, before the ship unloaded passengers, the parents BEGGED the cruise ship not to let people off, but they refused. Her brother remembered a guy talking to her when they were in the ship's bar; the brother went to bed, she came back, her shoes and cigarettes were found, but she was missing.
The parents believe she was drugged, removed from the ship, and kept on Curacao. It is a tragedy.Her father and uncle returned to the island several times; her photo was recognized by some on the island but she has never turned up. Another very sad story.
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